The End Of Empathy

In this special edition of GoodFellows, we’re joined by Roland Fryer, Professor of Economics at Harvard University. His work on education, inequality, and race has been widely cited in media outlets and in Congressional testimony. In this wide ranging conversation on the events of the past 10 days, the GoodFellows (moderated by Niall Ferguson - Bill Whalen is off this week) discuss Roland’s experiences with law enforcement as a teenager, which informed his future work researching the use of force by police departments and the disparities in how it is applied to African Americans. They also discuss one of the more radical proposals stemming from the George Floyd murder: defunding police departments. The implications of enacting that idea are wide-ranging, and the GoodFellows have a lot to say about it.  The conversation then takes up other possible reforms:  changing the organizational culture of police departments, engaging departments more with the communities they police, and improving communication —between the police, citizens, community activists, politicians, and yes, academics-- as our best hope to emerge from this tragedy with a better society. 

SPECIAL GUEST:

Roland G. Fryer, Jr. is a Professor of Economics at Harvard University.  Fryer's research combines economic theory, empirical evidence, and randomized experiments to help design more effective government policies. His work on education, inequality, and race has been widely cited in media outlets and Congressional testimony. Professor Fryer was awarded a MacArthur "Genius" Fellowship and the John Bates Clark Medal -- given by the American Economic Association to the best American Economist under age 40. Among other honors, he is a fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and a recipient of the Calvó-Armengol Prize and the Presidential Early Career Award for Scientists and Engineers. At age 30, he became the youngest African-American to receive tenure at Harvard.His current research focuses on education reform, social interactions, and police use of force.

Recorded June 5, 2020 NOON PT


WATCH THE EPISODE

Cast

John H. Cochrane

John H. Cochrane

Sir Niall Ferguson

Sir Niall Ferguson

H.R. McMaster

H.R. McMaster

Related

Videos

Spoiler Alert: Can You Get Sued For Revealing A Plot Point?

Can revealing a plot twist get you sued? Inspired by the controversy surrounding HBO’s Lanterns, Eugene Volokh and Jane Bambauer explore the tension between copyright protection and free speech.

September 15, 2026 • 0 Min Watch

Articles

Higher Education Must Overcome Comforting Delusions

It is comforting to suppose that the resentment and anger we provoke arise from misunderstandings on the part of others. 

September 14, 2026

Articles

The Makers Of Our Fate

Amidst rogue AI swarms, autonomous math breakthroughs, and proclamations of extinction risk from inside the labs, society is waking up. And this is why I don’t buy claims of imminent extinction.

September 14, 2026