Misha talks to Amb. Dan Kritenbrink, Assistant Secretary of State, about new leaders in the Philippines, South Korea, and Australia; as well as about Taiwan and the upcoming Quad meeting. Finally, they talk about Vietnam and Amb. Kritenbrink’s famous Tet rap.
To view the full transcript of this episode, read below:
Misha Auslin: Welcome back to the Pacific Century, a Hoover institution podcast on China, America, the Indo-Pacific and the fate of the 21st Century. I'm your host, Misha Auslin. And today, we are honored to be joined by the Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs, Daniel J. Kritenbrink, Dan to his friends. Dan Kritenbrink previously served as the US ambassador to Vietnam from 2017 to 2021. He was also Senior Director for Asian Affairs at the National Security Council, and Deputy Chief of Mission at the US embassy in Beijing, in addition to multiple other overseas tours, mostly in Asia, though, in other places as well. Dan is a Nebraska native, and he has a master's from the University of Virginia, and a bachelor's degree from the University of Nebraska at Kearney. So, Assistant Secretary Dan Kritenbrink, welcome to the Pacific Century.
Daniel Kritenbrink: Dr. Auslin, Misha, what an honor to be with you here today. Thank you for inviting me. Thank you for giving me an opportunity to think big thoughts here this Tuesday morning.
Misha Auslin: You've come to the wrong place for big thoughts. We might be able to squeeze out some very small thoughts, but it is a busy week, and particularly appreciate you coming with everything going on. So, let's launch into it. We've got a whole host of stuff to talk about that you are probably the best placed person in the government to work with us on. So, number one-
Daniel Kritenbrink: Well, I don't know about that. Let me just say honor to be with you this morning. And it's a tremendous honor to have this position. I'm a career foreign service officer, as you know, and to be able to work in a position to help shape, and implement our policy, and our strategies in Indo-Pacific is truly the honor of a lifetime. Look forward to our conversation today.
Misha Auslin: Well, thanks again. And again, someone with your depth and breadth of experience, really, to be able to talk about all the things that are happening, including a raft of new leaders in the Indo-Pacific, and that's where I'd like to start.
Daniel Kritenbrink: Sure.
Misha Auslin: So, we just had an election in the Philippines, a very important election. The new president will be Ferdinand Marcos Jr., who goes by Bongbong, so Bongbong Marcos. If you are of a certain age like me, when I was in college, you remember and watched on TV, the overthrow of his father, Ferdinand Marcos, the dictator, that was in 1986. Obviously, we have had a fraught relationship with the Philippines under current President Duterte. President to be, President-elect Marcos actually was running under or with Duterte's party. So, he is a member of Duterte's party, but he is of course the scion of the Marcos dynasty. So, what do we expect from the new president, President Marcos, and how will that affect our Alliance? And will he be as focused or as leaning towards China as it seemed that President Duterte was?
Daniel Kritenbrink: Well, Misha. Thank you. Let me start by saying, when I tried to summarize Biden-Harris administration's approach to the Indo-Pacific, I usually described it by using just one phrase, allies, partners, and friends. Because I think building the collective capacity of our allies and partners in the region, ensuring that we work together with allies and partners to defend the rules-based order, which we believe is currently under threat, really is the center of our entire approach to the region. So, our five-treaty allies really are our primary focus in the region. And certainly, the Philippines is one of our key treaty allies. Again, it is a true point of emphasis for us in the region. We welcome the election of President-elect Marcos. I think you may have seen on May 11 that President Biden spoke to him. I believe President Biden was the first world leader to call President-elect Marcos. My understanding is they had a very productive, very positive conversation. The president stated how much he looks forward to working with President-elect Marcos to continue to strengthen and build out our vitally important alliance. We think, again, our alliance is with Philippines, and with our other four allies in the region really are irreplaceable and foundational. So, I think we're optimistic for the future. We do want to give the new president-elect some space to actually be inaugurated and begin. And we look forward to continuing to work over these final weeks with President Duterte and his team. But look, I would just say, Misha, that we continue to cooperate very, very closely with our Filipino allies on a whole range of issues, certainly particularly, on security issues, and maritime issues in the South China Sea, where we have longstanding shared concerns about PRC assertiveness and aggressiveness and their unlawful claims there. But look, we've been friends, partners, and allies for decades, and I think we'll continue to build on that history and our shared values. And again, look forward to working with the president-elect.
Misha Auslin: Is he a populist like Duterte is? Meaning, do you have worries? Obviously, the relations between the US and the Philippines started getting difficult, that's a diplomatic way to put it. They started getting difficult under the Obama administration. There were ups and downs during the Trump administration. Of course, you were out in the region as ambassador to Vietnam at that time. So, you probably saw it a little bit more closely than others. Is he a populist? Are we worried that these policies are going to continue, or will that create problems for us?
Daniel Kritenbrink: Well, again, Misha, I want to give the president-elect all of the space to determine exactly how he wants to approach matters. Here's what I'm confident of. I'm confident that our alliance with the Philippines is enduring. I'm confident that our many shared interests, and values, and our shared history is going to continue to propel our relationship forward. So, again, we're very optimistic about the future, and we look forward to working with the president-elect and his team. And I would say, look, even over the last several years, sure, there have been challenges, but we've also done many great things together. And I think the cooperation that's at the center of our alliance has continued for the last few years, and has really intensified over the last couple of years. So, we look forward to continuing that trend and that momentum, but I can guarantee you, we're going to continue to place tremendous emphasis on our alliance with the Philippines. We have great respect for our Filipino friends. Channels of communication are open, very close and active. And so, again, we're quite optimistic about the future.
Misha Auslin: And one last Philippines question before we move on. Obviously, under Duterte, the Philippines was moving closer to China at certain times. There was obviously a lot of tension in that relationship. And yet, there would be moments of what seemed like a very close alignment. Early readouts, do you get any sense on where President-elect Marcos will go? Will he be pro-China? Will he continue pro-China tilt? Do we have confidence that we're going to... that our alliance will become primary in Philippine foreign policy?
Daniel Kritenbrink: Well, Misha, here's what I'm confident of. I'm confident of the fact that our Filipino allies will know best how to determine their national interests. I'm also confident that the United States of America is going to continue to be the Philippines's reliable, consistent, strong, and dependable ally and partner. There's no doubt about that. It's one of the reasons why the president wanted to call President-elect Marcos so early, just to make that clear. And I think from that perspective, again, I remained quite optimistic about the future. We always say that we don't ask our partners in the region, even our closest allies to, "Choose." You have to deal only with the United States. You have to deal only with China. That's not what we're about. That's not the position that we want to put our partners in. Rather, what we want to do is we want to make clear what we proactively, and affirmatively stand for. And then, we also want to continue to build the capacity of our partners, including our Filipino allies, to be able to make their own sovereign decisions, free of coercion, and to advance their national interest in the way that they see fit. I'm quite confident in that approach. And I'm quite confident going forward that allies like the Philippines and other partners in the region, they're sending a very strong demand signal for US engagement. In fact, I would argue for increased US engagement. And I think partners in the region, they have their own important complex relationships with China and that's fine. But they also have deep concerns. And certainly, I would say one of our primary concerns, one of the issues we're tracking most closely is China's ongoing aggressive behavior in the South China Sea, including behavior and claims, many of which are illegal and have no basis in international law. And that's something I think that we see eye to eye on with our Filipino friends.
Misha Auslin: So, let's shift north a little bit to maybe an easier ally. I know you wouldn't say that, but that's the difference by the way. The optimism and the confidence of a professional diplomat like yourself versus the eternal pessimism of a historian like me. I like the balancing, balance us out here on the podcast. It's really important.
Daniel Kritenbrink: Well, Misha, no, I appreciate it. Look, one of the reasons why I wanted to spend some time with you is, and I mean this very sincerely, look, we really benefit from these conversations. And when we have world class experts like yourself, whether it's in academia or the media, it's great that you keep us honest, that you force us to think, see things from a new angle. So, no, I have tremendous respect for you and what you do. And I appreciate the conversation, but yeah, I hope my confidence and optimism shows through. Look, I have tremendous confidence that in the long run, when you think about who we are as Americans, what we stand for, the values, and the principles, and the interests that we stand for, the capabilities that we have, buttress by our long history of association with our allies, partners, and friends across the region, I'm quite confident and optimistic how this is going to turn out. And the reason why we're so focused on, and if I can add, Misha, is we are absolutely convinced. And the president is made clear that America's future security and prosperity is going to be dependent on what happens in the Indo-Pacific. It's really that simple. We think that the history of the 21st century is largely going to be written in the Indo-Pacific. We have to get this right. It's in our national interest. It's in the interest of the American people. But again, I have great confidence and optimism about our approach and how that's going to work out
Misha Auslin: Well, it's great, again, to hear you to say, you're too kind. By the way, regular listeners of this podcast will be thinking, who is he talking about? Because there's no expert here that's moderating this. You're the expert. So, let's move north a little bit and actually to another ally, one that in some ways I don't want to say closer, but one that we have almost a unique alliance relationship with. And that of course is South Korea, which also has a new president, president-elect will be have a president, I believe in May. And that is President Yoon. President Yoon is a political novice, was a prosecutor, never ran for political office before, is not a career politician. He is on the conservative side of the spectrum. He had very narrow victory, extremely narrow victory. Some things of like what we're getting used to here in the States of a very divided electorate, but he has signaled very strongly his interest in improving relations with Japan, which is critical for us. Also, improving relations with us, and somewhat, maybe a more open question on where he'll go with North Korea. So, what can you tell us about what we should be expecting, what we're hoping, and what the Biden administration is hoping from soon to be president Yoon in South Korea?
Daniel Kritenbrink: Well, Misha, thank you very much. And if I'm not mistaken, yeah, President Yoon of course, won the South Korean election, and was just inaugurated. The second gentleman led the US delegation to the inauguration. And I know that President Biden is very much looking forward to his trip to the region and coming days. I think you've seen the announcement. The president will be in Seoul and Tokyo. And I won't get ahead of the White House and what further the president, and national security advisor, and others will say about the trip. But I do know how much the president is looking forward to that. And here is another place, Misha, where I would say, we really have no better or no closer ally than the Republic of Korea. You think about, again, the enduring strength of our Alliance ties really born in the crucible of war and continuing all these many decades. And you look, for example, last year, when then President Moon Jae-in came to the United States as the second world leader to visit President Biden in the White House. You look at the joint vision statement that we released at this time. It's really stunning in terms of the breadth and depth of the issues on which the United States and Republic of Korea are aligned, and that we're working on for our benefit, and the benefit of peoples in the region and the world. And I think what we anticipate, Misha, is that that momentum will only continue under President Yoon. And I'm quite optimistic that here, again, our alliance with the Republic of Korea will only further strengthen and deepen. I had, again, one of the reasons why it's such a privilege to have this job. I had the honor of traveling out to Seoul last fall for my first trip to the region as assistant secretary. I believe it was in October, but whenever it was, I had the honor of meeting both the presidential candidates at the time, including then presidential candidate Yoon. And he was kind enough to spend some time with me. And I came away deeply impressed. I think what he said to me in that meeting, and what you saw in the campaign, and what he said since his election and inauguration is that this is a leader who's firmly committed to the US-ROK Alliance. I think we've been quite impressed by his stated desire, again, to work closely with the United States. Not just on Korean peninsula issues, but on issues related to the broader region and globally. And then, we're quite hopeful as well as you noted, I think he's already had some significant outreach to Prime Minister Kishida in Japan, and has stated his desire to make progress there. And so, we're quite hopeful about that as well. In a nutshell, the United States of America and the American people are more secure and prosperous when our two closest treaty allies in Northeast Asia have a productive working relationship. And so, we're hopeful there as well. I would also add that the new South Korean Foreign Minister Park Jin, led a delegation here prior to the inauguration. And I and others here in Washington had a chance to sit down and have extensive conversations with him as well. So, let me just reiterate, very hopeful, very optimistic about our future cooperation with the Republic of Korea. Maybe a final point. It's been a lot of talk in recent years about, "Global Korea." And been quite struck by that Korea has a lot to offer, not just to the United States, but to the region and the world. And we're very supportive of seeing Korea play that very important role regionally and globally as well.
Misha Auslin: Yeah. So, obviously, I have to do an editorial note, which I always have to do on this podcast. I actually forgot it was May, honestly. I knew he was getting inaugurated in May. I forgot it was May.
Daniel Kritenbrink: I know exactly what it's like to be in the vortex when you get in work. Yeah, no, really. It was quite exciting that the second gentleman and-
Misha Auslin: And that was a week ago, it was May 10th.
Daniel Kritenbrink: ... the secretary of labor. I think that was a week ago. Yeah. And somebody from my team as well, went out there, and again, came back very impressed by the new president. But again, I think the point I'm trying to make is that our alliance with the Republic of Korea is enduring. Transcends politics in any one party, we of course, had a very productive relationship with former President Moon Jae-in. But again, we're off to a fantastic start with President Yoon, very optimistic, very confident about our future work together. And I think that will come through loud and clear during President Biden's trip in just the next few days.
Misha Auslin: Right. So, the president is going. I'm wondering if you can give us a sense on what would we believe new President Yoon is... what is North Korea policy is going to be? Obviously, former President Moon pushed really, an unprecedented engagement both between the north and the south. But also, in many ways, pushed the United States into high level direct negotiations that took place under the Trump administration with the north. Is there more hesitancy that you think is coming from the... I don't want to say hesitancy and they're brand new, but what are you reading from how they're going to approach North Korea, which has been conducting more rocket tests lately? They seem to be popping up a little bit more. Of course, now there seems to be a COVID outbreak. So, it's a tense time on the peninsula. What's your assessment of where Yoon is going to go with North Korea?
Daniel Kritenbrink: Sure. Well, no, thank you, Misha. Look, I don't want to speak for the President Yoon administration. I would just say that among all the many issues that we discuss, and on which we cooperate closely with our Korean allies, obviously, North Korea is one of the most important. And that's been the case for decades. And I say, unfortunately, that will have to be the case going forward because I think situation in the north is deeply concerning, and is only becoming more so. I think Washington and Seoul, and I know this is the case under President Yoon as well, we are deeply concerned about the multiple missile launches and tests that we've seen this year. We're concerned that North Korea may take other destabilizing steps. We continue to signal, first and foremost, our ironclad security guarantees to our treaty allies of Republic of Korea and Japan. We've made clear that we will continue to take steps to counter the threat posed by North Korea's missile and nuclear programs. But we've also signaled that we are open to diplomacy to explore a better path forward. But of course, to date, North Korea has signaled no willingness to explore that path with us. So, we'll continue to take steps. We'll remain in lockstep with our Korean, and Japanese allies, and others. But we'll continue to take steps to counter the threat, again, posed by North Korea. And our friends in Seoul, and Tokyo, and elsewhere in the region should have no doubt about that.
Misha Auslin: So, in the interest of time, and I'd love to talk more about Korea, but in the interest of time, let's jump down south because we have yet another potential leadership change. And that's also with a critical ally. And that's going to be in Australia. Australia is having an election this week. The current Prime Minister Scott Morrison of the liberal party, that's the conservatives in Australia is trailing in the polls. So, seems to be solidifying his position a little bit.
And the labor party of more progressive, the labor party candidate has a potential of winning. So, what would be the implications? What's your sense? Do you think the Prime Minister Morrison is going to pull it out, or do you think we're going to see a new potentially progressive leadership in Australia? And what will that mean for our alliance? What will it mean for the Quad? We're going to talk a little bit more about the Quad later.
Daniel Kritenbrink: Sure. Well, Misha, I don't know, and not in the business of trying to predict elections, whether it's in Australia or anywhere else. But I would note, it's really encouraging to me that we're having this conversation about some of our closest treaty allies in the region, and they're all coming out of democratic elections. And I think it just speaks to why is it that these countries are among our closest allies and partners? Because we share not just interest and history together, but we share obviously, many important values, including our commitment to democracy. Look, when I talk with our Australian friends, I had the chance just yesterday to talk to my Australian counterpart. I noted to them that the upcoming election, which is really a celebration of Australian democracy, is something that we're watching closely. But we've made very clear that our alliance with Australia transcends politics in any one party. We very much look forward to working closely with whomever the Australian people select. And we're confident that whomever the Australian people selected, again, our alliance will endure, and we'll continue to work closely to advance our shared interests and values with our Australian partners going forward. I would note that in February, had the honor of traveling with Secretary Blinken to Australia. It was part of a larger trip to the region. And we went there for the Quad for ministerial that Secretary Blinken participated in, and that our Aussie allies hosted. And it was a tremendous honor to be there, highlighted not just the strength of the Quad, but really, bilaterally as well. The enduring strength of our alliance with Australia, no better ally, no better friend. We fought shoulder to shoulder in every conflict over the last century. And it's quite extraordinary just how aligned we are strategically, and in terms of our interests and values. And while we were there, of course, we had fantastic meetings with the prime minister, with Prime Minister Morrison, with Foreign Minister Payne and others. But as we always do, when we visit our democratic partners around the region, we had a chance to meet with the opposition as well. And again, we came away impressed and confident that no matter who wins this election, the US-Australia Alliance will endure and strengthen going forward.
Misha Auslin: It'll be very interesting to see what happens, obviously, if there is a change in government, if that will indicate also a change in policy or relations with China, which for Australia, has been extremely difficult over the past several years. And I would probably expect not, but it'll be interesting to see.
Daniel Kritenbrink: Yeah, sure. The one thing I would say, and again, the reason why I said what I said just a moment ago is through the meetings that we had both with the current government and opposition leader Albanese and the shadow Foreign Minister Wong and others. I think we came away confident that whomever the Australian people select, all sides are committed to the alliance, and to working closely together to continue to advance our shared interests. And certainly, China will be, I would argue foremost amongst them, will let our Australian friends speak for themselves. But there's no doubt that amongst the concerns that we have with PRC behavior, it's the use of coercion to advance, on the part of Beijing, to advance its national interest, as it defines them, that I think is probably most concerning to us and many of our partners. And certainly, Australia has been subject to that, but so have many other partners and friends around the region. It's deeply concerning.
Misha Auslin: So, let's talk about, if we're talking about coercion, and we're talking about China, then perhaps at the top of the list is Taiwan. Last week, the State Department released a fact sheet. For those who are not familiar with the fact sheets, they are a general, but top-level statement of the US policy, and how the US views any particular country. I don't know if we do fact sheets for every single country, but we obviously do them for critical countries and our critical allies.
Daniel Kritenbrink: Yeah. I think we do fact sheets on just about every partner with whom we have a relationship out there.
Misha Auslin: So, one was released last week on Taiwan, and it was significant. It was different. It was different from prior fact sheets, including those that the Trump administration had put out, and it was unabashed in its support for the relationship with Taiwan, the role that Taiwan plays as a critical partner for the US. It changed some of the language. It dropped a line that had been in there for a long time on the US opposing Taiwanese independence. It dropped the line that the common phrase that we've used for a long time, the US recognizes China's position that there is one government of China. Instead, it simply reiterated the agreements that we have made, such as the Three Communiques, the Six Assurances, and the like. So, can you tell us a little bit about what's changed now? How has this become such a vocally forthright approach towards Taiwan? What has the Chinese response been? And was there any opposition inside government to changing the fact sheet so dramatically?
Daniel Kritenbrink: Well, Misha, thanks for this question as well. Always delighted to have an opportunity to talk about Taiwan and Cross-Strait issues. I think the first point that I should emphasize, I know there was some press coverage of this issue. Look, there's been absolutely no change to America's One China policy. And again, it's our US One China policy, which is of course, different from the PRC's One China principle. And America's longstanding One China policy is based on the Taiwan Relations Act, the Three Joint Communiques, and the Six Assurances to Taiwan. So, nothing has changed about that. If you go back and you look at the testimony that I delivered together with my good friend Assistant Secretary of Defense Ely Ratner last fall in front of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, or if you think back to the separate closed-door briefing that we gave to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on this same subject earlier this year, we've made clear that there's been no change to America's One China policy. There's been no change to the framework that we use to approach and manage these issues. I think we have all the tools that we need. Our focus needs to be continuing to meet our obligations under the Taiwan Relations Act, which as you know, Misha, states that the United States will ensure that Taiwan is able to maintain a sufficient self-defense capability. So, our focus is on deterrence. It's on stability, it's on peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait, maintenance of the status quo across the Strait. And I would argue that it's our approach, and these policies that have helped us maintain peace and stability across the Strait for the last 50 years. What has changed and what is deeply concerning is a host of Chinese actions designed to put pressure on Taiwan. And those are the actions that I would focus on, and would ask you, and other friends to focus on. That's what is concerning to us, but there's been no change to our formal One China policy in any way. The fact sheet was updated, and we do that periodically. But again, there's been no change to our fundamental One China policy, if that makes sense.
Misha Auslin: It does. And I think for those who support Taiwan, which certainly, most of the people that I know in DC, and most of the folks working on Asia, not only welcomed the fact sheet and were heartened by it, but it seems, I think to many that the administration is taking some significant steps to norm even more the idea of Taiwan being a player and an actor in the region, and beyond the region. I think that may have started in some ways with the COVID pandemic when we saw how well that the Taiwanese dealt with it, and how open they were, and supportive of the international institutions have worked. But even before that, there had been moves, obviously, a lot of moves by the Trump administration, starting with the phone call between then President-elect Trump and President Tsai Ing-wen of Taiwan, the first ever. But even beyond that, it seems that the US and the administration now is pushing for Taiwan to be more normalized as a part of the international community. Is that a fair assessment? And if so, what's next? Is it getting it into the WHO? Is it getting it into Red Cross? What would you like to see?
Daniel Kritenbrink: Yeah. Misha, I guess what I would say is, again, I'll just reiterate a bit of what I said before, and then respond more directly to what you said. Again, what is our focus? Our focus is on Cross-Strait peace and stability. It's on maintenance of that status quo that we would argue has maintained peace and stability for decades. And it's, again, continuing to focus our policy as we always have on making sure we're assisting Taiwan to maintain that sufficient self-defense capacity. So, our relationship with Taiwan is an unofficial one, but it's a very important, I would say vitally important and very robust one. Taiwan is a tremendous democratic partner. It has a lot to offer to the region and to the world. And I think that is something that we have that we probably have highlighted a bit more. I think, again, that doesn't signify any change in our official approach to these issues. I think it signifies really, the extent to which Taiwan has developed its capabilities, and proven as you noted, whether it's in the medical field, or other fields, or quite frankly, its central role in the global economy that Taiwan has demonstrated what an important partner it is. So, we are focused on that. We do talk about making sure that we are able to expand and maintain Taiwan's so-called international space so that Taiwan can play a productive role in the international community. And our position is that Taiwan should have a productive role, and should have a formal role in organizations that don't require statehood. And in those that do, Taiwan should still be able to play a productive if informal role again, because of the great capabilities that it offers. So, that's what our focus is going to be. And whether it's testifying in front of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee or talking privately with our friends in Beijing, we continue to underscore what America's national interests are. How our policy has not changed, but how we continue obviously, to have a deep interest, and a biting interest in the maintenance of Cross-Strait peace and instability.
Misha Auslin: Well, there's a lot more, I wish we could talk more about Taiwan, but time is ticking. I would just say that it does seem someone who's watched this for a little bit, that it's a lot easier nowadays to talk about Taiwan. It seems a lot easier to talk about Taiwan as a partner, as a country that, again, plays a role in the Indo-Pacific, a country that has its own important relations with other partners of ours, such as Japan. I know the language I'm using is not the language necessarily that the government would use, but that seems to be a change. It seems to be an extremely positive change. And speaking is a historian, I think we're going to look back, and we're going to be, I don't want to say surprised, but I think we'll be pleased as we look at the past decade, decade and a half, and see the development. A big question is of course, where does it go? And hopefully, in a way that continues to benefit Taiwan's stability and security, which I think is how the government would put it, and others would use different terms. So, I'd love to talk more about it, but let's move on because we do want to be respectful of your time. Let's talk about the Quad. You talked about partnerships, and you talked about dealing both... well, first of all, dealing with partners, friends, and allies. Dealing with countries that are not friends and allies, but with whom we have important relationships. The Quad is going to be meeting next week. President Biden will be going May 24th in Tokyo. This will be the second meeting of the leaders live. They did have a virtual meeting, but the world-
Daniel Kritenbrink: That's true. I think this is the third summit, but the second in person.
Misha Auslin: The third and the second in summit, but the world has changed a lot. And events that have happened halfway around the world in Ukraine, I think have had a spillover effect to some degree into the Quad. Certainly, the thinking about what the Quad should be doing, the role the Quad should be playing in a world in which we face aggression, and we face as you put before, the attempted use or the use of coercion. So, first, can you give us a highlight? What's going to happen at the Quad? There have been some failures in terms of vaccine diplomacy, not as much done as we had hoped. There's obviously splits now between three of the Quad members and India over relations with Russia because of Ukraine. So, can you give us a preview of what's going to happen, and more, is the Quad still viable?
Daniel Kritenbrink: Well, thank you, Misha. Look, I do know how excited the president is to travel to Tokyo on May 24 for, as you noted, the third Quad meeting, the second in person summit. By our count, this is the third summit in the last 15 months. I think what I would say, Misha, I think the Quad is one of the most significant developments that I've seen in my career, or rather, I should say, maybe the further strengthening, and expanding, and intensification of our cooperation. And the cooperative activities we carry out together is probably one of the most significant developments that I've seen in my career. I think that we're trying to demonstrate as four leading democracies, four the most capable democracies that we as partners, allies, and democratic nations, that we can continue to deliver, deliver in defense of our interests and our values. And deliver in terms of providing concrete and tangible outcomes in the interest of all across the region. So, I think the significance of this next meeting will be as before, it will be a chance for four democracies to discuss the leading issues of the day. I will say, Misha, reflecting on the Quad foreign ministerial in Melbourne that I mentioned earlier, the Secretary Blinken attended, and I accompanied him. I would differ and quibble a bit with your description of the Quad earlier, because the phrase that I use to describe the Quad based on our interactions is convergence. Really an amazing, and I would argue, unprecedented convergence of interests, and our outlooks on the region, how we see the region, what we think are the greatest challenges that we face in the Indo-Pacific. Also, conversely, what are the most important opportunities that we need to seize together? And based on those discussions that we've had, whether it's a leader level, foreign minister level, or in the more expert level in the senior officials' meetings that I chair with my colleague, Don Lu here periodically, it's extraordinary how unified we are on our approaches to the region, how we intend to work going forward. So, I think the strategic conversations will be very important, but the Quad leaders are also focused on making sure we achieve tangible things. And I would say the Quad vaccine partnership is actually one of, I think the best examples of the Quad successfully working for the benefit, not just of our interest, but of the region as well. We've committed to deliver one billion vaccines to the region. We're well on our way to doing so. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but if I remember correctly, I think we're about halfway or beyond there. So, I think that's been tremendous. But the other areas that you see coming out of the Quad for ministerial, you look at the joint statement that we released back in February, we're working on cybersecurity operation to address climate change, critical and emerging technologies, infrastructure, investment, countering disinformation. We're also working to develop a Quad fellowship program. And maybe one other thing I can point out, Misha, that I think is quite significant. Maybe hasn't gotten as much attention as I expected it. It would have. Last week, President Biden hosted the US-ASEAN Special Summit here in Washington, DC. It was a tremendous opportunity to coordinate, and advance practical cooperation with another very important set of partners. In this case, our nine partners who attended the summit from ASEAN. But if you look at that joint vision statement that we negotiated, the United States and ASEAN also highlighted the important work that we're doing with other partners, including the Quad, and specifically, on the Quad vaccine partnership. So, I think it goes to show that both individually, the four countries of the Quad and the Quad as an entity as well, we are absolutely, and firmly committed to ASEAN centrality to cooperating with partners across the region, including on ASEAN, and again, in ways that deliver very practical benefits. So, I think that's a general overview of what the Quad leaders will be focused on. And I would anticipate that the White House and the president himself will have more to say about this in the next few days. But truly, I can't underscore enough, I think just how important and consequential our cooperation in the Quad is.
Misha Auslin: Well, I'm glad you quibbled with me. We like quibbling. Quibbling is good. And we appreciate the lay down.
Daniel Kritenbrink: No, but I mean that sincerely. I think you can see it, it comes through the joint vision statements, and you'll see it in the statements of the leaders. But having sat through the foreign ministerial in Melbourne, I sincerely have never seen anything quite like it, just stunning, the extent to which again, we are aligned, and in which our interests and our views on the region converge. Now, of course, we're four independent sovereign nations. And there will be some issues, including the ones that you've outlined on which we may have some differences. But I think if you focus on the Indo-Pacific, which is where the Quad is working and where our primary focus is on, again, I see a stunning convergence and alignment.
Misha Auslin: Well, we're almost out of time. I'd like to see maybe if we can squeeze, you mentioned Southeast Asia, and you were ambassador to Vietnam. I'd like to squeeze in if we could, a final question about Vietnam.
Daniel Kritenbrink: Let's do it.
Misha Auslin: Vietnam is a strategically critical country. Those of us who visited it, understand the dynamism, its youth, its desire to play a larger role. But obviously, it is a socialist republic. There are human rights issues. There are freedom of expression issues. And yet, if there's one country that you hear over and over and over in the strategic discussions about the role that we hope it could play and that we could play with, it's Vietnam. What is your sense of where we're going to be going forward with Vietnam?
Daniel Kritenbrink: Well, Misha, thank you for asking about Vietnam. It's a subject about which I'm quite passionate. I agree with everything that you said. Our comprehensive partnership with Vietnam is vitally important to the United States. I would argue that Vietnam is one of our most important partners in the entire region. We have such incredible potential going forward. When I reflect on my time serving as American ambassador there, truly was an amazing honor to be there. It was so moving to be there because I always say that we have a future-oriented partnership with Vietnam that is focused on delivering results for our two country's peoples. And I think we do that very well. And here's another place where we're largely aligned on how we see the region and what kind of region we want to live in. But we also work on a daily basis to overcome some of the legacies of our tragic past as well. And it's quite meaningful to me, quite moving to me that despite that tragic past, and despite having fought a brutal war against one another, today, our work to overcome some of those legacies, whether it's remediating unexploded ordinance, or dioxin and Agent Orange are treating people with disabilities, or engaging in the humanitarian work to account for missing American service members, and to account for Vietnam's own war dead. Those activities are deeply emotional, deeply moving. And I think have helped contribute to this foundation of mutual, and respect, and trust on which our entire relationship is based today. And also, if you go back, and think about our future together, and our very positive present, I think the Vietnamese are incredibly capable partners as well, very strategic, very practical. I often joke they live in a rough neighborhood, and I think their circumstances have forced them to be very clear strategic thinkers. What I have always underscored to my friends in Hanoi and across Vietnam is that they can count on the United States of America. They count on our commitment to our partnership with Vietnam, and to our commitment to peace and instability across the Indo-Pacific. It's a message that we send, of course, to all of our friends and partners across the region. But given my own experience there, Vietnam will always be very special to me personally. But you're also right, one of our most important, most capable partners. And I should hasten to add, really honored that the new Vietnamese Prime Minister Pham Minh Chinh came to the US-ASEAN Summit. And he had a chance to have a number of discussions with President Biden. I was privileged to attend Secretary Blinken's meeting with him as well. I'm as optimistic as I've ever been about the future of our partnership with Vietnam as well.
Misha Auslin: Well, in addition to being one of our most accomplished diplomats, ambassador to Vietnam, clearly, one of the highlights, one of the milestones in the US-Vietnam relationship was your Tet rap. Yes, yes. For those who don't know-
Daniel Kritenbrink: I was wondering if I could escape an interview without talking about-
Misha Auslin: You cannot escape it. We're going to try to put some of that rap up on the podcast. Those of you who don't know, please go YouTube it. That's the type of public diplomacy I think we need. Are you going to do any more rapping now that you're assistant secretary of state?
Daniel Kritenbrink: I think, Misha, I'm probably a one hit wonder. But let me just say something about that. That was so much fun to do. And I give all credit to my team had a great colleague named Matt Frans, who was our public affairs officer at the time down in Ho Chi Minh City. And he conceived of the entire thing. And I was merely the front person who was out there to make it go forward. But I think it says a lot about the US-Vietnam partnership that the US ambassador to Vietnam at the time somehow thought it was a good idea to do a rap video to celebrate the US-Vietnam partnership at the time of the Tet holiday, and that we thought it would play well. And then, it did play well. And oh my gosh, did it exceed our expectations. And I think I was really moved by that. I was surprised that anybody outside of Vietnam noticed. I still don't totally understand why it went viral for a while, but you may have some theories. But what I was most happy about is that I think our Vietnamese friends really appreciated it and really liked it because I think they interpreted it for what it was, which was a signal of the great respect that we have for Vietnamese people.
And it says something about how far we've come in the four plus decades since the Vietnam War, that's for sure. And one other point that I would say as well, isn't it extraordinary that we chose to use rap as the medium to convey that message? I was so struck to find that rap is wildly popular in Vietnam today, the United States of America is wildly popular. So, we're all aspects of our culture, including culture associated with rap and hip-hop. The whole video is a spoof on the most popular rap battle show in Vietnam. And we got Wowy, who's Vietnam's probably most famous and popular rapper to join me in doing it. And so, what I loved about it as well is that it celebrates something about the cultural links between the United States and Vietnam. And I think has opened up a whole new avenue for discussion. So, my dream would be now that COVID is opening up and we could travel, I would love to see us do something in this space. I would love to get some of America's greatest rappers and hip-hop artists to travel over there as well, and vice versa. My friend Wowy, who did that video with me, if I remember correctly, he told me he's never been to the United States.
Misha Auslin: Oh, really?
Daniel Kritenbrink: He loves the United States, loves American culture. Obviously, was inspired by rap culture, but has never been here. But anyway, really, it was fun to do, but we did it for a very serious purpose. We did it to try to celebrate our relationship, convey respect to the Vietnamese. But I have to say, the response far exceeded our expectations. But yeah, I think I'm a one hit wonder in that regard. I'll see if my public diplomacy colleagues have any more bright ideas for me in the region, but probably won't be wrapping too much anymore anytime soon.
Misha Auslin: That's clearly, it shows your touch, your human touch out there, but as well in spending time with us today to go through all of this. Again, a busy time, new leadership, top level meetings, summits coming up as we speak, a full plate for you and your colleagues. And I think a lot of movement, still lots of concern over the way things are developing in certain areas. But really, the commitments seem to be building on one another in a way that we're all waiting, watching, looking for capstone documents to understand all of the clarity of thinking, but clearly your ability to explain it all to us is extremely helpful, and cover a lot of areas we usually don't get to on the podcast. So, Assistant Secretary of State Dan Kritenbrink, thank you so much for joining us today on the Pacific Century.
Daniel Kritenbrink: Misha, thank you. What an honor to spend time with you. Really impressed by your questions, really enjoyed our conversation. And again, I am very optimistic about our future in the Indo-Pacific, but we shouldn't underestimate the scope of the challenges that we face either. But to those who sometimes question our commitment and focus on the Indo-Pacific, I would simply say one small example. Look at the fact that Secretary of State Anthony Blinken spent a week in the Indo-Pacific, and Australia, and Fiji, and in Hawaii meeting with our Japanese and Korean allies, right on the eve Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. And despite the challenge posed by the war in Ukraine, and Russia's ongoing brutality against the Russian people. You see the fact that the president hosted the US-ASEAN Summit here in Washington last week, that he'll be in Japan and Korea in the coming week. And I think it shows we are going to remain laser focused on the Indo-Pacific going forward.
Misha Auslin: Well, again, a great summation and we appreciate it. Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian Pacific Affairs, Dan Kritenbrink. Thanks so much for joining us. For those of you who've been listening, thank you. This is Misha Auslin, and we'll see you next time on the Pacific Century.
Daniel Kritenbrink: Misha, thanks so much.
Misha Auslin: Thank you.
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