- China
- Science & Technology
- Innovation
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- Confronting and Competing with China
Dr. Elizabeth Economy sits down with Patrick McGee, Financial Times technology journalist and author of "Apple in China," discussing how Apple's deep integration into China's manufacturing ecosystem inadvertently helped build China into the industrial powerhouse it is today. McGee traces Apple's journey from near-bankruptcy in the late 1990s to becoming deeply dependent on Chinese manufacturing, explaining how Apple didn't just outsource production but actively trained Chinese factories and transferred sophisticated manufacturing knowledge that later benefited competitors like Huawei and Xiaomi. The two explore critical inflection points, including Apple's partnership with Foxconn, political tensions with Xi Jinping's government in 2013, and Tim Cook's decision to double down on China rather than diversify despite growing risks. McGee argues that Apple's current dependence on China is so profound that meaningful diversification to India or the United States faces enormous practical and economic obstacles, with Chinese manufacturing capabilities now potentially surpassing Apple's own expertise. The episode concludes with McGee advocating for a realistic U.S. policy that accepts manufacturing across allies, while warning that Americans fundamentally underestimate how technologically sophisticated China has become.
Recorded on December 10, 2025.
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Patrick McGee is the author of Apple in China and was the Financial Times’s principal Apple reporter from 2019 to 2023, during which time he won a San Francisco Press Club Award for his coverage. He joined the newspaper in 2013, in Hong Kong, before reporting from Germany and California. Previously, he was a bond reporter at The Wall Street Journal. He has a master’s degree in global diplomacy from SOAS, University of London, and a degree in religious studies from the University of Toronto. He and his family make their home in the Bay Area.
- Visit Patrick McGee's website
- Follow Patrick McGee on X: @patrickmcgee_
Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US Secretary of Commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on US-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs.
ABOUT THE SERIES
China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.
