Unlocking Global Talent: The J-1 and O-1A Visas

- Thank you for joining us. I'm Paola Sapienza, the JP Conte family Senior fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University. And I'm here with em, nice distinguished Immigration Council at the Institute for Progress and Distinguished Immigration Fellow at Cornell University. Today we're tackling an important issue regarding the challenges business face. When hiring international talent in the US American firm face a costly paradox. They need highly skilled immigrants to drive innovation. And Amy, as someone who has worked as an immigration lawyer, what do you see as underutilized pathways for high skilled immigration?

- I think that there are actually a couple of tools in our toolbox that employers have not been using to the full extent that they could. One category is the J one visa that a lot of people are very familiar with.

- The J one visa is typically used as researcher, is that correct?

- Well, I don't know if I'd say typically 'cause there's 15 different categories, Paola. Oh, okay. Anything from AU pairs, camp counselors, also researchers. But the J one researcher visa has been used for decades, primarily by academia.

- That's correct. Yeah.

- Yes. But today it turns out 90% ish of experimental stem RD is funded by and performed by companies approaching 60% of applied stem. RD is funded by and performed by companies. And so companies also need a lot of researchers and the law and the regulations and the agency policy at the State department allow that same J one researcher visa that's used extensively here at Hoover and at Stanford on campus to be used off campus by employers in industry.

- So you're saying because this business are tech, you know, are really practically doing research, they can use the same pathway and what's the advantage of a J one over an H one B?

- Well, I think it's better to look at it not as, instead of H one B. It's just, this is another tool in the toolbox. The J one is founded on the very important concept of if there's an exchange of ideas, we should have a visa that allows people to come to our country to exchange ideas. And you know, the in, in research, especially in STEM research, the exchange of ideas is like baked into the activity. So it's a perfect fit for what somebody might be doing. The advantage to the, to a company that people haven't been considering is that you can get up to five years. So that's a nice runway of time. There's no numerical limit. There's no particular per country caps or restrictions that relate to one, one country over another. Although there are some countries based on their own economic development, where if the skills being developed in the US are directly related to the home country's needs, you're required to go home. But this is a concept that applies across countries. And the bottom line is, if a company is engaging in research, it doesn't have to be the sole purpose of the company. You don't have to have a separate research building, you don't have to have a separate research subsidiary. But if part of what your company does is quantum research or AI research, you could employ some people in this J one researcher category and have access to talent that is not tied to other restrictions or numerical. So

- It seems like a natural pathway. Yeah.

- Given

- That

- For research,

- Most business have moved into doing applied research.

- A lot of them have, obviously not everybody, but I'm saying in the Silicon Valley area. Yes. Across the country, though, it's also true, maybe not with the same intensity as Silicone Valley, but there's science and technology intensity across our country. Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Ann Arbor, Raleigh. It's not just, you know, Denver, Austin. You know, it's not just Cambridge, Massachusetts, and Silicon Valley where there's a lot of research being being performed by companies. And the J one also doesn't advantage or disadvantage any company based on their size. So it can be for any, any size entity company. So I think that's one option that people should be considering.

- What's another one?

- Another one is this oh one a category that is reserved for the most extraordinary and accomplished people is something that is, while it has a very high standard, and so again, we're talking about J one, it's only for research. There's lots of foreign professionals who are working in the United States or employers would like to hire foreign professionals in the United States aren't research. So this visa

- Is only for PhD? Or is it just my impression?

- That's a good question. So it is easier for a PhD, for a STEM PhD to qualify than otherwise. But the key thing that's different that I think people are not indexing enough on is that it doesn't have to be in academia where you measure your accomplishments by publications. And so if you look at STEM PhDs that are international STEM PhDs in the United States, in any given year, approximately 14,000 international students earn of STEM PhD in America. Every year, approximately 35,000 international STEM PhDs are doing postdoctoral fellowships in America every year. That's a pool of 49,000 STEM PhDs who weren't here approximately. And they're not all extraordinary, they're not all accomplished. They're not all people who compare to their peers are the top. But this oh one a category as far as it's being used for STEM activities is only about 5,000 people a year. So I don't know how many people qualify, but I'm quite confident it's more than 10%. And so even in that group of people, there are many more people who should use that pathway.

- Others. So you're saying by the numbers that you observe in actual application and the number that we observe, a PhD graduate with an international background, it's, and many of these PhD STEM graduate, indeed, they go to industry eventually even after a postdoc. So it seems that this is a path that has not been used as much by, that's right.

- So those are two categories I think people should consider.

- So is O one A an alternative to H one B? And how should immigrant students, I understand this mostly we're thinking about PhD students should think about these two options.

- Well, I would say there's three. There's three components of who we wanna think about who, who should be thinking about this? Employers, their lawyers, and the international STEM experts themselves. And in my view, the assessment should actually happen before the H one B option. In other words, why are you putting somebody in the H one B lottery? Why is the H one B lottery filled with STEM PhDs? Because we're clogging up the system with people that qualify for something else.

- So you're saying this, this is, and, and in many ways, this is not a worst option. It's actually easier one to achieve once you pass, you know, maybe I'm mistake. You know, I, so what you're saying is why thinking about this as an alternative after

- Yes.

- Having done an H one B rather than going there first?

- Yes. The O one A has no numerical limit, no maximum period of stay. You can extend it indefinitely and it can be now extended in three year increments. There was a time when it was thought it could be one year increments, three year increments. So if you are some do that assessment to see, are you someone who might qualify for this category? It's not easier as far as the substantive standard. But as far as the procedural and legal hurdles and the application fees, frankly, for the employer, there's higher fees when you do an H one B, but the legal fees might be more similar because it's a co, it's a high standard. It's not for everybody. And it's certainly the case that not everybody who doesn't get selected in the H one B lottery, it's gonna qualify for O one A. So

- What you're saying is if you think you're qualified for the O one A,

- Yeah,

- Just go for it.

- Yes. That's it.