How Israel Fights: Inside the Mossad with Zohar Palti

- How Israel fights and why. The former head of the Intelligence Directorate in the Mossad, Zohar Palti, on "Uncommon Knowledge" now. Welcome to "Uncommon Knowledge," I'm Peter Robinson. Zohar Palti spent nearly four decades in Israeli national security, first in the Intelligence Corps of the Israeli Defense Forces, then in the Mossad, where he became head of the Intelligence Directorate, and then in the Ministry of Defense where he served as director of the Policy and Political Military Bureau. Mr. Palti holds a BA and MA from Tel Aviv University. When Mr. Palti retired from the Israeli Ministry of Defense in 2022, our own Department of Defense awarded him the Medal for Distinguished Public Service. Zohar, thank you for joining us today.

- Thank you for having me.

- Zohar, you left Israel just a day or two before the current conflict began, is that correct? All right. A couple of very brief opening questions, one to give us a feel for life in Israel right now, the second, the world. You've been in this country since just before the conflict began.

- Mm-hmm.

- Just to give us a brief glimpse of life in Israel, you're on the phone with your wife, how many times has she heard the air raid siren or the emergency tone on her phone since this war started?

- First of all, thank you so much for hosting me. Thank you very much for the Hoover Institute and Stanford, and to Terry and Barry, and they're good friends. You know, it's not personal, it's all the State of Israel, and I used to be in Israel in the June campaign. Back then, we used to have, like, 50 or 60 ballistic missiles in every launch that Iran used to have. This campaign, what our family are having right now, they're running every night between five to six times to the shelter, and you know, every house in Israel.

- Every night?

- Every night. And during the day, it's around 11 sirens, and they're launching right now one, two, three ballistic missiles. Compared to June, it's, in a way, improvement, but it's dragging nuts everybody, because every five minutes, you can't take a shower, something very basic, because every couple of minutes there is. Still, Israel is a unique country. The resilience of the people of Israel is, in a way, amazing, and they understand that we have to pay this price at that moment in order that our children will have a better life the day after. In a way, it's privileged to be over here, but as you understand, the hearts and minds are back home with the family. And in the context, it's not to jump immediately to what the current war or conflict right now, I think it's more like October 7th. October 7th for us was an earthquake, and everything that we see since then in the last two and a half years, it's kind of a aftershock after an earthquake, and we're only in the middle of it. It was the first time in the history of the State of Israel that we saw scenes from the Holocaust, of families lying right by each other. We never saw it in the Arab-Israeli conflict, not in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. It was kind of a shock for us how we blew it that day. Atrocity, rapes, murder, and it seems to me that everything that you see since then is reflection of the Israelis, to the fact that we're, in a way, sick and tired that every guy that wants to kill Jewish or Israelis have the ability to take a rocket, or to take a, I don't know, light weapon and just to do it just because he can. So everything that you see since then in the last two and a half years is, first of all, related to that. Second issue is that, in a way, we always used to say, if there will be existential threat against the State of Israel, we'll operate. Used to be like that in '81, when Begin took a decision to attack the nuclear reactor in Iraq without the Americans, as you know. It used to be like that in September, 2007 when Prime Minister Olmert decided to take down the Syrian nuclear reactor again after President Bush told him, "We're not going to do it," so we took the decision alone. And we have the sense that since the Holocaust, we don't want, and we're living on it, and never again. And when you have regime like you have in Iran right now, and thank God to this administration, and mainly to President Trump, that realized that they actually mean when they're saying we want to eliminate the State of Israel. In June campaign, you came with a B-2 at day 12, and as the president said, you vaporized, in a way, the three nuclear site. And what we're seeing right now is something that came in April 13/14, '24. That night, the Iranian first time decided to launch 300 ballistic missiles from Iran soil, cruise missiles and attack UAV against our families in one night. Thank God that we have outstanding defending earth systems. A lot of them help with the Americans. We have the Iron Dome, the David Sling, and the Arrow. We intercepted most of them, we protected our families, but then we realized that the ballistic missiles and the fact that the Iranians wants to launch thousands of them, in a way, it's becoming a very, very serious threat to the State of Israel. The combination of the nuclear and the ballistic missiles, it seems to me that right now, this is the reason that we are in this campaign with the fact that the Iranian regime brutally decided January 8/9, last January, to murder thousands of Iranian. The numbers are between 5,000 to 30,000. Nobody knows exactly. And that's why your president came and say, "The help is on the way." When America say, "The help is on the way," you're a big ship, you're a big carrier, you're not doing it from today to tomorrow. It took, like, five, six weeks in order to generate everything, and of course, shoulder to shoulder with you, we came, and it seems to me that that's what we see right now.

- Zohar, Israel's been at war for more than two years now, since October 7th, as you said yourself, and then after the Twelve-Day War of last year, we were told that the Iranian program was crippled. Hard to figure out. Some said it was put away, some said, "Well, at least a year or two." From the Israeli point of view, why now?

- I said it, I think so I can a bit crystallize this issue. The combination of the nuclear, that was the first priority.

- Right.

- Most of the job have done in June. There were remaining, and the Iranian were struggling to think about how to expedite this program, but basically, most of the nuclear issue-

- Was settled?

- Was not settled, but we took care about it, basically, in June campaign.

- All right.

- What we found out, that they started to manufacture thousands of ballistic missiles. Now, every democratic country that want to live like we're living like in America, you know, it's a free society. People prefer to go to work, and to go have whatever normal life. If Iran will decide to launch this attack of thousands of ballistic missiles, that will create something.

- You know-

- I don't want to use the same word, existential, like the nuclear, but not far from that.

- But distinguish between ballistic missiles and the kinds of rockets that Hezbollah has been popping over Israel for years now. Just explain so we can follow that difference.

- So ballistic missiles, I don't know if you saw the pictures, but the agent of the ballistic missiles is like this stage, only the agent. Now, the body is another one. It's huge, it's from here till the wall, and so many kilograms of C4 in this issue. Each ballistic missile that we are not intercepting, and thank God that we have the Arrow 2 and the Arrow 3 to intercept it. If it's falling in a populated area, take for example, I don't know, something that you are all familiar. Take for example, Manhattan like Tel Aviv. Take Lexington and I don't know, whatever, one of the blocks. Whenever it's hit, all the surrounding building in a radius of couple of hundreds of yards are damaged and gone. One missile that we're missing, it's between 700 it 50 million shekel to 1.2 million damage. Billion, one missile. Imagine to yourself thousands of them. Imagine to yourself without the ballistic, without the-

- The Iron Dome?

- Without the Iron Dome, and of course, the Arrow, and things like that. So in a way, it came to a point that the quantity is becoming a very risk to the State of Israel, and that's why, in a way, it's preventing, and that's why it's so important, and when we saw that Americans understand it, and again, see what the Iranian are doing right now in the Gulf. The Gulf states that they're our partners. Since Abraham Accords, Trump won. We came to the point that the Emiratis, the Bahrainis, the Moroccans, they all have peace with Israel right now, and hopefully, the Saudis will join one day as well. The Iranian are launching more than thousand attack UAVs against the Emiratis, against the Bahrainis, against the Kuwaitis, against the Qataris, against the Saudis. I mean, the Iranians are bullying all the region right now, and the understanding was that one day, they will launch this attack even without whatever United States and Israel is doing right now. In a way, it's a preventing in order to consume another surprise of like October 7 in the region again.

- Zohar, I should note for the camera that we're recording this conversation on March 11th, so this coordinated attack by the United States and Israel has been going on for 12 days. What has happened? These Iranian supreme leader, dozens of other high officials killed, the Iranian Navy, essentially, sent to the bottom. The Iranian capacity for launching ballistic missiles reduced, you'd know, obviously, you'd know better than I, but as I read the newspapers, reduced by at least 80%, but what hasn't happened, regime change. There's been no popular uprising. As far as I'm aware, there aren't even visible signs of dissent or unrest in the IRGC. The Iranians have chosen a new supreme leader, Mojtaba Khamenei. I'm hoping doesn't last long enough so that I have to memorize the name. They've widened the battle space, just as you said, they've closed the Strait of Hormuz, and they've launched a couple of ballistic missiles toward Turkey, a NATO member.

- And Cyprus.

- And Cyprus.

- And Azerbaijan.

- And Azerbaijan is not NATO, but yes, all right. So, what are they thinking? What are they thinking? What is their motivation? They could be conciliatory, they're not. We just have a hardened regime and a widened battle space. What do they think they're doing?

- First of all, they don't like you guys. They call you the Big Satan. We're in a good place right beside you, like always, and we're very proud about it. They don't like us as well, and we're the Small Satan. So I'm not joking, that's how they see it. And it's not by coincidence that they used to have a plot over here in America to kill most of your seniors, your president, Secretary Pompeo, General Milley. I can give you some more names, but it's still classified, some of them. The Iranian actually hate the guts of the United States of America. It's simple, I know. When you're sitting over here in Palm Beach, sometimes it's difficult to understand what I'm saying, but people, those guys, they really don't like all the values that America is bringing. It's radical, fanatic, very extreme religious, in a negative way, regime. They want to dominate the area. They want a military nuclear bomb. They want ballistic missiles. They want to bully their neighbors in the Gulf states. They want to wipe out the State of Israel. Quite simple what they want.

- Could I, you mentioned that this begins on October 7th, Yahya Sinwar was killed about a year after October 7th, but on October 6th, here's what I'm getting at. To what extent are the Iranians and their proxies, we'll come in a moment to the so-called Ring of Fire, to what extent are they irrational, pre-medieval, and to what extent are they genuinely strategic thinkers? So on October 6th, what did Sinwar think he was doing?

- I just saw in Hoover, Abbas Milani, Professor Abbas Milani, and I think that he's one of the greatest, if not the greatest Iranian expert, and he just published an interview two days ago, and he said, "In a way, what we see right now that the United States of America and Israel is doing is kind of the fall of the Berlin Wall," so maybe he's right? I don't know yet, time will tell. It's a profound question, what we want to gain. When we come into regime change, I will tell you something, as a guy that used to deal with intelligence, if there is something that the intelligence community around the world, and maybe the leading one, and this is the United States and Israel regarding the the Iranian issue, we don't know how to get into the head of millions of people. We don't know how to assess whether people will leave home tonight and we topple the regime or not. We failed in the Soviet Union when the Soviet Union collapsed, and we failed a decade ago, more than a decade ago, in the Arab Spring to anticipate that it will start in Egypt. As you remember, there was a coup over there. The Muslim Brotherhood took, and then it was a counter-coup. In a way, it's a wishful thinking for the time being. People have to be very courageous right now when the Basij and the IRGCs are walking in the streets and threatening to kill each one of the protestors that will go out. How you measure courage right now? And they're afraid to die. So we as United States of America and Israel can do the ultimate in order to diminish the risk to them, but whether to push them and whether to tell them, "Go to the streets and topple this crazy regime," I think that this is more than a wishful thinking than esoteric plan for the time being.

- All right.

- Whether there is miracles in the Middle East, yes. Whether I'm willing that I wish that in five minutes we will hear in the media that they're down, yes, but it seems to me that it's a way to go.

- All right. I spoke, he didn't know I was gonna quote him, so I probably shouldn't name him, but I spoke to not a recently retired general who's been pretty well briefed, I believe, and he said that the original division of responsibility was United States take out their weapon systems, Israel go after their air force, but also, and this is worth spending some time on, also Israel's job to degrade the infrastructure of repression. Hitting the big military targets was the work of days. That's our job. Degrading the infrastructure of repression is the work of weeks, that's your job. How's it going?

- So let's start like that. First of all, it's not exactly like that.

- It's not correct, all right.

- No, no I didn't say it's not correct. It's not exactly.

- Ah, not exactly. All right.

- I have to be polite over here. Why, because the nature of a battle is the things you plan it when you have, like, the PowerPoint presentation and everything, but when are you coming, actually, to the battle, things are changing. And if there is right now a squad room of American in here, or, on the contrary, Israeli one, and you have a target, guys, were sitting in the same command and control room, the Americans and Israelis. So even if you used to have, like, a plan

- Division.

- Or division, we'll take the east part or the west part, and the American, it's like one entity right now. Meaning if there is a target and there is Israeli planes, they will do it. So that's why I say it's not exactly like that. Regarding weeks, guys, you have a very, let's say, dominant president right now over here in America, and he will decide at the end of the day whether you fulfill the mission or not. It could be in five minutes, five hours, five days, five weeks, or five months. For the time being, I don't know to assess it. There was a lot of pressure in the last weekend because of the energy, because of the oil, because of the Strait of Hormuz. Couple of things that the US Navy have done, and the Air Force, and acouple of statement from the president, and a couple of things behind the scene, as I saw the price of the barrel of the oil yesterday reduced significantly from more than 100 to 80-something like it used to be.

- It's 92 as of this morning.

- Right now, it's 92.

- All right.

- Ups and down. This is not something. There is not a shortage of oil yet, but there is, like, a traffic jam, you know, of many, many ships, and there are no doubt that there is uncertainty about where it's heading, the LNG, gas, oil, and other issues. It seems to me that over here, the leadership understand it and know how to deal with that. It's a matter of days till your navy, and you have a serious navy, will deal with that issue as well. The question whether we're fulfilling the mission and whether we can call it a victory or success, I think with the nuclear, we're doing very good, and in a way, check. I think with the ballistic, we still have a way to go. Whether we going to finish completely the ballistic, there is not zero or 100 over here, although we always do remain. The question is how much we hit the military and the security infrastructure in Iran in a way that they will have difficulties in order to replenish and to rebuild their launchers, their ballistics, and they arise. For the time being, I don't know to assess it. It seems to me that we're doing good. If I'm doing like that, 70%, something like that, 75%. For me, as a Israeli, that my family and our friends are under this threat, it's not enough. I'd like to see some more. So if there will be more time, we'll improve in this issue, but whether we're doing good, okay, we're doing okay with that. All the other you said, no navy, no air force, no military industry. The Americans and the Israeli took all of these targets. So when the president this morning gave an interview, and he said that most of the targets are gone, in a way, he's right. I'm saying, the military targets is right. Regarding how to hunt the launchers and the ballistic missiles, I think that we still need time for that in order to say that we've done a good job.

- In the press over the weekend, the press turned negative in about... It took a decade for the press to turn negative in Vietnam. It took about three days in this conflict. But let me ask you about a couple of points that have been coming up again and again in the press. One, resupply of defensive munitions. When they sent over a ballistic missile, you launched two or three missiles to defend. Our navy, again, we've been launching defensive, and apparently, you're the expert, I am not, but apparently these things take a long time to resupply. The resupply chain is a matter of months, and the question is will they run out of ballistic missiles before we run out of defensive missiles? I'm putting it extremely crudely, but that's in the press. The other one that's maybe only a couple of days old now is the fear of attacks on desalination plants. Kuwait, 90-

- Let's do it one by one.

- Do one by one? All right.

- You know, I'm a simple guy from the Middle East, you know?

- Okay, okay.

- It's too complicated.

- Okay. So the resupply of defensive munitions.

- Guys, you said a lot many times the word, defense, of resupply.

- Yes.

- I would like to emphasize the offensive. And we're doing good at our offensive. And when you're going to a battle, it's basically offensive issue right now. We finish with the defensive, that's part of this campaign, not to be defensive all the time. Israel used to be defensive in the last 20 years. Right now, we're on the other side, and with the offensive ammunitions, we and the Americans, we're doing very well. We can continue this campaign much more than the Iranian will have.

- All right. Desalination plants?

- Desalination plant, no doubt that this is an issue.

- [Peter] They've hit one in Bahrain already as of this morning.

- They hit one in Bahrain, that is true, and the Gulf states are depending on this issue. The Americans understand it. The Americans planned before they knew that the Iranians are going to hit. Energy side, I want to remind you that the Iranian used to launch in September 14th, 2019. As a surprise, they launched accurate missiles against the Saudi's energy facilities. In two hours, they destroyed 50% of the Saudi's oil production.

- Two hours.

- Two hours. Right now, the Americans learned the lessons. The Saudis, the Emiratis, the Qataris, they are amazing defense systems that the Americans gave to their partners in the region, and so far, they're doing good. Whether sometimes they're hitting the bad guys, of course, but relatively for what the Iranian aim, I think that the American technology and the American superiority is amazing.

- Okay, and you mentioned the Strait of Hormuz. Here's an item. This just moved this morning as I was pulling together my notes. The Thai-flagged bulk carrier, Mayuri Nari, was struck by Iranian missiles near the Strait of Hormuz this morning, March 11th. The Royal Thai Navy reported the two projectiles struck the hull above the waterline. The Royal Navy of Oman rescued 20 Thai crew members. And of course, we have President Trump saying earlier this week, "We're putting an end to this threat once and for all. The Strait of Hormuz is going to remain safe," but there's almost no traffic moving through the Strait of Hormuz. How, how do you make it safe when the danger seems to be now from drone attacks?

- So first of all, let's talk about the drones. Who is an expert in suffering in the last almost three years is the brave Ukraines.

- [Peter] Yes.

- And I know there are some people that are representing Ukraine over here in the crowd. I think that we should appreciate the suffering that the Ukraines are passing, and- And the Ukraine developed very interesting methodology how to deal with those drones, and it seems to me that some of us will have to learn from them. We, the Americans and the Israeli, we invested less in the drones, because mainly, the main threat is, of course, the nuclear and the ballistic missiles. And when you're developing so many advanced systems, always there is priority over here.

- Yes.

- But no doubt in this world there will be a lot of implications to the military industry. I don't want to get into it. Strait of Hormuz, I like to emphasize the full glass. Last night, you took, if I remember correctly, the number, US and America, 18 specialist vessels, that their mission is to spread mines all over the Strait of Hormuz. You took them down. There is no navy, almost. Whether the risk came to zero, no, but over here, there is the fear element, the psychological warfare that nobody can control it. That's why do you see all the anxiety right now regarding the energy. So it seems to me that American understand it. This is part of the American, the fifth mission. I assume that in the next few days, you'll see change in this issue as well. And I just saw publication, like, a couple of minutes before that the US Army recommending to the Iranian not to come near the coastline of Iran, mainly in Bander Abbas, probably because they understand your question so well, and they prepare to that. And it seems to me that the change will come in the next few hours, few days, because America understand that the Strait of Hormuz need to be open, and guys, it's a war. It's taking some time.

- We're on day 12. Zohar, you mentioned a test. I like the Palti Test, and the Palti Test is, is my family safe?

- Always.

- Is my family safe back in Israel? So let me ask you about the so-called Ring of Fire that existed, that surrounded Israel, before October 7th. And let's just go around the Ring of Fire briefly, and you tell me whether Israel has yet dealt with each of these chains in this ring, whether it yet passes the Palti Test. Hamas and Gaza itself, dealt with?

- In a minute, I'll give you an answer. In a minute, just remind me, but you touch a very important fact, and this is the families factor. What we found out, and it seems to me that, you know, this way, Israel is very similar to America, because we are both democratic countries, we share the same values, and what we found out in the last four years is the young generation, and if there is a sign, something that I'm very, very optimistic and looking, you know, very bright for the future is to see that the young generation, we thought that those guys, beside TikTok, and PlayStation, and Xbox, they don't know nothing, and we found out that they're amazing. They passed the COVID, and it was tough, and then two and a half years of, and when you ask them, "How are you doing?" They usually come and say, they have a slogan in Hebrew, "All good." "All good, don't bother me. I know how to handle with that." And there are right now having thousands of raids in Iran. We have so many women pilots first time that are in the cockpits doing their job, and we're very proud about that. And this is part of the internal struggle in Israel right now, you know, because there are some debates. Not that they're here, you are all perfect internally, but we in Israel, we have a political debate about how to serve in the army and things like that, and the young generation is really amazing. The Israeli economy is booming. We're right now on $60,000 per capita. Our economy is, if we are not going to have a war in the next decade, we'll reach a trillion dollar. I mean, the stock has changed, and the high-tech companies right now, you can see how many American companies are buying them, and that's during a war. We don't know how to explain it. Frankly, I'm telling you, we don't know how to explain it. It sounds like crazy that why the stock exchange in Israel is so booming, but this is kind of an answer. Families, future, high-tech, how to push to the excellency during a time of war, and to how to see Israel better and better in the near future, and to finish the issue of this war, and hopefully, that after this campaign, we'll do much better. Now, back to your question.

- Hamas, dealt with?

- Kind of.

- Okay.

- Kind of, because as you know, the Gaza Strip is splitting right now. We control 53% and the Palestinians 47%. There is the Trump program over here of the 20-something points. Right now, everything goes on points because we're all engaged with the Iranian issue. No threat from ballistics missiles, rockets, and things like that. Hamas, in a way, controls some of the populated area over there. Sadly, the Palestinian prefer the radical.

- Still?

- Still. And they want to topple the PA and the Palestinians in the West Bank. We are still having an issue over there, but let's say the big conflict is over.

- All right.

- Now, how to sort it out? That would take a long time.

- Militias in Syria, gone?

- Listen, I'm a guy that used to do deal with counter-terrorism for so many years. A day before this al-Jolani/al-Sharaa came, there used to be a bounty of $10 million on his head over here in America. Let's give it a time. I want to see that this guy is actually delivering what we... Whether there is a glimpse of opportunity over here, yes. Whether I'm for sure about that, let's wait and see a bit.

- The Houthis.

- Houthis is without Iran are not exist. All the technology and everything is coming from Iran. This campaign is part of it. For the time being, the Houthis are not in the game. I anticipate they will join in the next few hours, days. We have-

- They don't have a ballistic capacity, still?

- They have, they have.

- They still do?

- They still do. We made a lot of damage to them with you guys, some of them American work, some of the Israeli work. We're deploying right now a lot of troops in order to protect this issue as well. Whether the game is over with them, no, not yet.

- Hezbollah?

- Hezbollah, we have outstanding opportunity in Lebanon right now. President of Lebanon and the prime minister, this is the best opportunity that we used to have in four decades or five decades. Sadly, we don't have, meaning the Lebanese don't have capabilities with the Lebanese army, and their chief of staff, General Haykal, is not exactly on the right side. There is no quarterback from the international community, not from the Europeans and not from the Arab state, in order to elevate Lebanon. We, as Israelis, we need to do a bit better. Hezbollah joined the campaign couple of days ago after to help the Iranians. They're launching right now missiles to Tel Aviv and all to north of Israel. North of Israel till Haifa line is taking a lot of heat. Compared to Tel Aviv with the ballistic from Iran on the center of Israel, the north of Israel right now, even much more

- Really?

- Than the center of Israel right now, I'm not so sure that we will not have to go to another big campaign in Lebanon. I hope that we're not. We've been stuck in Lebanon for 17 years. I was there. We're not missing it, but if needed, to protect the family, as I said, we'll have to do it again.

- All right. So how are the Mossad? On September 17th, 2024, thousands of handheld pagers used by Hezbollah exploded. The next day, hundreds of walkie-talkies did the same. Hezbollah itself admitted that these explosions killed or wounded some 1,500 fighters.

- Life is tough.

- How did you guys do that? Just whisper.

- First of all, I don't know, I just read in the newspaper. No. There are brilliant women in the Mossad, and I'm not emphasizing, it was women that came with this idea. A particular lady, 27 years old. And we look at her and we said, "Like the Nike slogan, just do it." And it sounds simple, it sounds very, you know, but this is only one operation that you were, I mean, you saw the footage, it was a lot of effect for it, but to have superiority like the Americans and us have in Lebanon with Hezbollah or in Iran right now, you need a lot of intelligence coverage, much more than the papers. And this campaign, how to get intelligence cover is more than 20 years, and it's a lot of operation, a lot of risk, a lot of creative thinking. And if I'm trying right now to squeeze and to summarize the American technology with Israeli technology, with our pilots, the boys and the girls, and the American and Israeli sides are here. There is no other element in the world that have the ability to deal with our weapon system and our technology. We took down in 24 hours all the air defense of Iran. It sounds crazy. So beepers, and this is why we need the Stanford. That all the Ivy leagues, that MIT, that Harvard, Tel Aviv University, and things like that will continue to boom. The young generation that I spoke about them yesterday. We have a lot of challenges right now with AI, with quantum, with all the new stuff that are right now coming to technology, and we can't stay behind. If we want to continue to be good and have pagers, beepers, air superiority, and things like that, we need to invest a lot of money in education, and mainly in technology, And to be very criticized about our performance, to be become better. Without to understand where we blew it, and to look about how to improve, and not to be so satisfied from ourself, beepers and things like that, we're not going to be good in the future.

- Zohar, there's one more that I just can't resist. Two items here, one is the television series, "Tehran." In one episode, that aired a few years ago that I watched, the Israeli agent, Tamar, and her colleagues back in Israel achieved remote control of the traffic lights in Tehran, which enabled them to divert police away from their own vehicles. Fiction, television. Here's "The Financial Times" nine days ago, I'm quoting. "When the highly-trained loyal bodyguards and drivers of senior Iranian officials came to work near Pasteur Street in Tehran, where the Ayatollah was killed in an Israeli attack, the Israelis were watching. Nearly all the traffic cameras in Tehran had been hacked for years, their images encrypted and transmitted to servers in Tel Aviv." Oh, come on, tell us how you did that one.

- First of all, I told you that there is miracles in the Middle East. By the way, this is not something too sophisticated. It's relatively easy.

- All right.

- Remind me to stay on your side, Zohar. Okay, here's the headline in "The Wall Street Journal" this very morning. "Trump says the Iran war is nearly won. Israel has other ideas," and here's from the lede. "Hours after Trump told a reporter the military campaign was, quote, 'very complete, pretty much,' close quote, Netanyahu reiterated his maximalist goals for the war. Quote, 'Our aspiration is to enable the Iranian people to cast off the yoke of tyranny,'" close quote. Now, as you said yourself a moment ago, we are working together. As far as I can tell, the United States is now working with Israel more closely than we have worked with any other ally since we worked with Britain during the Second World War. Yet, we are a sovereign nation, and you are a sovereign nation, and no matter how tight the alliance, there are going to be areas where our interests diverge. How do grownups work that out?

- First of all, we have only one ally and only one friend, and this is the United States of America. And I know it sounds strange, but I still believe, and this is my personal opinion, that bipartisan is above everything. And in a way, we need to improve a bit this issue from the Israeli side. Without America, we can't manage, and we are so proud to be shoulder to shoulder with Americans, with the values, with the beliefs and how we live as a democracy, freedom of speech, and the fact that we are friends together. The Congress is so generous to help us in the last years with platforms. Platform is a nice word to meaning aircraft. We're flying only Americans, we're using only American technology. We never flipped boats on it, and we're not going to flip. And our national security is built on the synergy with the Americans. So I don't think that in the end of the day there will be a daylight between us. Even if we will see a bit different, the president, it seems to me that he know how to speak with Prime Minister Netanyahu, and they saw each other in the last year, like, seven times, if I remember correctly on president. And that was it sorted out, but it's fine what the good guys want to do. There is, you know, also the bad guys, and I'm not sure that the Iranian will play the game exactly as the Americans or the Israeli like to see it happening. And it seems to me that they have other ideas with Hezbollah and Lebanon that maybe we'll have to continue this battle, as I said before, not that'd like to see it, but if they will continue to launch missiles, we'll have to protect our families. And I'm not sure that the Iranian will play the game exactly as everybody thinks, whether it's "The Wall Street Journal" or other, as you described. Life is a bit more complicated from this editorial or this. Sometimes the bad guys are calling the shots, and we'll have to react, but it seems to me when the president will speak with us, with the State of Israel, we like, always will be on the same side with you guys.

- Zohar, let me quote the conservative journalist, Matt Walsh. I have some differences with him, but he's a good guy as far as I'm concerned. Here's what he posted on X a few days ago. "We're told this will benefit Israel and I'm sure it will, but Israel is not America. How does it help us? That needs to be explained." Now, you are not running for office in this country.

- Thank God.

- But would you care to offer an an answer?

- No, we have our own problem as Israelis. The last thing that you need a guy from the Middle East to come to give your recommendation as Americans. It seems to me that you're doing good without my recommendation. I can tell you only one thing regarding these issues. Sometimes the Americans have a tendency, and I hear the debates over here, and are aware that you want to be more like in the continent, that others do. I used to have many, many hours with Shimon Peres, our late prime minister, when I used to brief him, and he used to say, "Listen, the Americans is a complicated country. They may doing a lot of mistake till they're doing the right thing," you know as Churchill or another used to say. Guys, there is no substitute to the United States of America. You're the good guys, you're the beacon. People wants to come and stand on the line of the immigration in JFK, or in Miami, or whatever. They don't like to see it in other superpowers in the world. Everybody wants to see New York or Los Angeles. Now, you can run, you can say, "We don't want this issue to be," but that's your job. And if sometimes you're fatigued, it's okay, take a nap, switch batteries, but in the end, you are saving the world. Otherwise, there will be tyrannies all over and people will be dead. This is what America is all over for the rest of the world, whether you like it or whether not. Now, I'm not preaching. We used to do, my parents used to be in the IDF, my mom and my dad. I used to be, of course, with my wife, my children. We know how to do the job, and we're not asking for the Americans to fight for us, And we're very proud about that. We're in the cockpit, we're in the navy, and we're in the infantry. We don't have a defense pact with the Americans. We're not like other countries in Southeast Asia or something like that. We're taking the goodies, we're taking the technology, we appreciate everything, but we're doing this job. As I mentioned before, '81, we've done it alone. 2007, we've done it alone. The Twelve-Days campaign, 11 days, we knew how to do it. Right now, I'm not trying to compare, we in not United States, you are huge in superpower. We are tiny, but still, we throw right now, like, 10,000 ammunition on Iran, our pilots. We have hundreds of raids above Iran as a state. So I think that we are giving our share, and we are very proud about that, that we know how to do it, and the last thing that we want is to jeopardize any Americans. It seems to me it used to be, and right now, this is my judgment, it was your interest, the president decisions. He's the one that said, "America is on the way to help the protesters,"

- Yes.

- And we joined the campaign. All the other things they're trying right now to spin in the media and things like that, I'm not so sure it's so accurate.

- All right.

- You have a serious commander in chief.

- Israel itself again. Before October 7th, Israel was a very divided country. Beginning in January, 2023, hundreds of thousands of Israelis in the streets protesting the government's proposal on judicial reforms. In fact, there was-

- Judicial revolution.

- Judicial revolution, all right, thank you very much. Thousands of IDF reservists, including pilots, announced that they would no longer show up for reserve duty if these reforms or the revolution went ahead. Broadly speaking, on one side, secular liberals, broadly speaking, on the other side, the religious parties. The war comes, October 7th happens, the country unites, but you face elections in October of this very year. How do you hold, you've been talking about bravery and patriotism, and the kinds of people you can recruit to the Mossad to risk their lives for year after year after year to put in place one program, it's astonishing, and yet you have to survive as a political entity. What happens in Israel in the coming months, apart from the war itself?

- That's a good question. If you ask me, this is the most important question. Because I used to deal with all the threats in the State of Israel in the last 40 years, and as a civilians right now, I don't have any formal job. If there is-

- Well, no, you said you don't have a formal job, so all right, you are a Hoover fellow.

- No, formally in the State of Israel. If there is something that bother me is the diversion and the split among the Israeli society. If we're not going to work as a fist and to be united, we know the history of the Jewish people. First temple, down, second temple, down. If we think that State of Israel is immune, we're stupid. We need to work about this relationship. It can end our relationship, and now, we're not doing good internally. The split and the diversity between the two sides is something that we concern a lot about this issue. How to fix it, how to glue it, how to deal with it, frankly, I don't know, but this is something profound.

- Zohar, my last question, babies. Babies. Country after country, including this one, is experiencing a demographic decline, birth rates well below the replacement level of 2.1. China, the birth rate is below one child per woman. The European Union, the birth rate has fallen below 1.4 per woman. Here in the United States, the figure is below 1.6. The birth rate in Israel, let me quote the demographer, Nicholas Eberstadt. "The fertility rate of the Jewish population in Israel was," and he's referring here to figures from 2019, "was 3.09. Above-replacement fertility is also characteristic," this is important, "of the less observant and even secular strata of the Jewish population in Israel," close quote. You are surrounded by enemies. You just told us that the air raid sirens are going off so often in Israel right now that you don't wanna take a shower, because you'll be caught with your shampoo in your hair when you have to run to the shelter the next time. Why is it that those good Jewish women say, right there is where they want to bring children into the world? Explain that one, Zohar.

- Children is fun. No. Love, what we call in Hebrew, balagan, mess at home. When you come to a house and everything is neat, you feel empty. It's part of our, in a way, part of our culture, part of how we... Israel, usually, we're a very cheerful country, very joy. To sit on the beach in Tel Aviv during a Saturday with beer and the children, this is heaven, and seems to me that is a part of the Jewish culture, the family, the children, this noise that we have in Shabbat dinners and things like that, so why not? Sounds like good.

- Why not? Zohar Palti, thank you. For "Uncommon Knowledge" of the Hoover Institution and Fox Nation, I'm Peter Robinson.